[Proj] Using EPSG codes with cs2cs

Mohammad Amro ec_eng01 at yahoo.com
Wed May 9 07:55:37 EST 2012

Hi Mikael,

Using the German wide datum shifts gave  for 13.75594444    51.0545555
cs2cs +init=epsg:4326 +to +ellps=bessel +proj=tmerc +lon_0=12 +x_0=4500000 +nadgrids=BETA2007.gsb

4623220.46    5659181.58
and Saxony wide datum shifts gave
cs2cs +init=epsg:4326 +to +ellps=bessel +proj=tmerc +lon_0=12 +x_0=4500000 +nadgrids=SAETA2010.gsb
4623220.45    5659181.59

1 cm difference, but still not what the tool says!!! (4623100    5659040). I start suspecting it :(

As you advised, last option, I will try the free Saxony tool TRANS_SN (light), and again if it does not match the tool outputs, I will do an offset and be happy with the almost 2m difference.

Many thanks,
Mohammad Amro

 Von: Mikael Rittri <Mikael.Rittri at carmenta.com>
An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions <proj at lists.maptools.org> 
CC: Mohammad Amro <ec_eng01 at yahoo.com> 
Gesendet: 14:32 Mittwoch, 9.Mai 2012
Betreff: RE: [Proj] Using EPSG codes with cs2cs

speaking about grid shift files: Dresden 
is in Saxony , right? I had a vague
of other German grid shift files, and I have now managed to find one for you: the
shift file for Saxony ,
SAETA2010.gsb, which you can get from here
Follow the link to “Gitterdateien für den
The accuracy is claimed to be better than 4 cm. 
However, a problem could be that this grid shift file
transforms from the datum RD/83, not 
from DHDN.  EPSG writes about RD/83 (the long/lat
coordinate system, EPSG:4745): 
   “Consistent with DHDN (CRS code 4314) at the
1-metre level. 
    For low accuracy applications RD/83 can be
considered the same as DHDN.”
And about the underlying datum, Rauenberg Datum/83, (EPSG:6745),
EPSG writes:
  “RD/83 is the realisation of DHDN in Saxony . It is the resultant of applying 
   a transformation derived at 106 points throughout
former East Germany 
   Pulkovo 1942/83 points in Saxony .”
I must admit that I don’t see how these remarks
fit together. If RD/83 is the realisation of
DHDN in Saxony , I would expect that they
coincide exactly, rather than at the 1 meter level.
But maybe someone else can explain this, or maybe you
can find an answer on 
the Saxony web site.
(I am not very good at reading German documentation.)
Finally, I noticed that Saxony 
web site provides a free application, TRANS_SN (light), 
which may be exactly what you need. It is probably
easier to use than Proj.4. 
Good luck!
Mikael Rittri

From:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org] On Behalf Of Mikael Rittri
Sent: den 8 maj 2012 16:34
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections
Subject: Re: [Proj] Using EPSG
codes with cs2cs
Jose' is right, especially if you want agreement with
other data that have been transformed
with those datum shift parameters. 
But you wrote:
> My need here is to get as accurate as possible
results (cm-level if possible).
Then, a better alternative could be to use the grid
shift file BETA2007.gsb. It is not distributed with Proj.4,
but you can find a link at http://trac.osgeo.org/proj/ under Download, Datum shift grids.
If you download it to the directory where the other
grid shift files are in Proj.4 (the naddirectory),
then you can do 
>cs2cs +init=epsg:4326
+to +ellps=bessel +proj=tmerc +lon_0=12 +x_0=4500000 +nadgrids=BETA2007.gsb
13.755944 51.054555
5659181.52 0.00
This result differs by about 1.7 meters from
Jose’s example. 
The BETA2007.gsb file is claimed to give submeter
“eine Koordinatengenauigkeit im
Submeterbereich”. (But maybe it 
is still possible that the 7-parameter transformation
you cite is more 
accurate locally around Dresden .)
Best regards,
Mikael Rittri

From:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org] On Behalf Of Jose Gonçalves
Sent: den 7 maj 2012 15:59
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections
Subject: Re: [Proj] Using EPSG
codes with cs2cs
In addition to my
previous e-mail, since you have your own datum shift parameters it is better to
write the full proj string, instead of using an epsg predefinition. Your
rotation angles are in radians but cs2cs expects arc-seconds. They become 1.04,
0.35, -3.08.
According to the map projection definition you give, the command line should be
something like:
cs2cs +init=epsg:4326 +to +ellps=bessel +proj=tmerc +lon_0=12
+x_0=4500000 +towgs84=582,105,414,1.040,0.350,-3.080,8.3
13.755944 51.054555 
4623218.81      5659181.06 -46.16


Jose'  Gonçalves

2012/5/7 Jose Gonçalves <jagoncal at gmail.com>

Are you sure of EPSG code 31495? In my epsg file, installed with proj, I can
find only:

epsg: 31461    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss zone 1 (deprecated)
epsg: 31462    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss zone 2 (deprecated)
epsg: 31463    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss zone 3 (deprecated)
epsg: 31464    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss zone 4 (deprecated)
epsg: 31465    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss zone 5 (deprecated)
epsg: 5520      # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss-Kruger zone 1
epsg: 31466    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss-Kruger zone 2
epsg: 31467    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss-Kruger zone 3
epsg: 31468    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss-Kruger zone 4
epsg: 31469    # DHDN / 3-degree Gauss-Kruger zone 5

If a projection ID is not in the file the expected answer is the one you got.
It is not a configuration problem.
Check http://spatialreference.org to check the epsg code


Jose Gonçalves

2012/5/7 rps_rt <ec_eng01 at yahoo.com>
Dear Warmerdam and all members,

I have been browsing and reading for a while to convert my coordinates with
no hope until finding this Proj. 4.

Kindly, I seek your support here ... I am using Linux Ubuntu to convert from
long/lat (WGS84) to Cartesian (x/y) and vice versa. My need here is to get
as accurate as possible results (cm-level if possible).

I was reading this thread because I had a problem of getting a cs2cs results
for espg=31495, while I could get them for espg=31468. But the conversion
results with the later one were not accurate ~ almost 100 meters away.

e.g.,: echo "13.755944 51.054555" | cs2cs +init=epsg:4326 +to

but when I change it to: echo "13.755944 51.054555" | cs2cs
+to +init=epsg:31495,
I get the message "projection initialization failure cause: no options
in 'init' file".

I tried to change something based on this thread, to make sure that my
PROJ_LIB path is in place, but it seems I ruined everything. Afterwards, all
espg zones gave the below error:
pj_open_lib(epsg): call fopen(/usr/local/bin/cs2cs/epsg) - failed
Using from definition: init=epsg:31467
Rel. 4.8.0, 6 March 2012
projection initialization cause: no system list, errno: 20

I tried to "make uninstall" and "make install" but nothing
was fixed!!

Here are more details about my project:

My locations are in Dresden city, Germany, (DHDN4), and I have (I assume)
all what is needed to get my coordinates converted accurately, but no idea
how to process them in Proj. 4 (I am totally new here):

PROJCS["DHDN / Germany zone

%Seven parameters:
% 582.00     - Translation dx in meter to WGS84
% 105.0      - Translation dy in meter to WGS84
% 414.50     - Translation dz in meter to WGS84
% 5.042e-6   - Rotation ro (omega) in Radiant to WGS84
% 1.696e-6   - Rotation rf (phi) in radiant to WGS84
% -1.4932e-5 - Rotation rk (Kappa) in Radiant to WGS84
% 8.3e-06    - Mapscale factor in ppm (parts per million) to WGS84(m)

Sorry for the long thread but did not want to miss any details, even in my
first ever thread in this forum.

I will be looking forward to reading form you.
Best regards,

View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Using-EPSG-codes-with-cs2cs-tp3841592p4957639.html
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