[Proj] Differences between UTM Zone 30 (ED 50) projections

Jelmer Baas baas at speerit.nl
Fri Oct 14 04:46:08 EST 2016

The difference between MapInfo Pro and Proj4, when both using the datum shift file:
MapInfo	-412840.21      	4952824.83
Proj		-412840.28         	4952824.92
Proj[1]		-412840.21      	4952824.84
That's only a few centimers, which is acceptable for my purpose. 

When removing the datum shift file from MapInfo, these are the results:
Proj		-412830.24      	4952825.87
PostgreSQL	-412830.24         	4952825.873
MapInfo	-412830.25	4952825.87

I'd say that's spot-on :)

[1] cs2cs +nadgrids=NTV2_0.GSB,BALEARES.gsb,PENINSULA.gsb +init=epsg:23030 +to +init=epsg:3857

I've now added the following to my epsg file:
<923030> +nadgrids=BALEARES.gsb,PENINSULA.gsb +proj=utm +zone=30 +ellps=intl +towgs84=-87,-98,-121,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs  <>


Jelmer Baas
Speer IT B.V.

-----Original Message-----
From: proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org] On Behalf Of Clifford J Mugnier
Sent: donderdag 13 oktober 2016 20:55
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
Subject: Re: [Proj] Differences between UTM Zone 30 (ED 50) projections

I find it hard to believe that ANY datum shift algorithm or data set is good to centimeters!

If a classical horizontal datum is involved; that’s impossible.  Two inertial datums … maybe.

European Datum 1950?  Not gonna happen.

Clifford J. Mugnier, CP,CMS,FASPRS
Chief of Geodesy,
Center for GeoInformatics (C4G)
266 ERAD (Research)
3335 PFT  (Academic)
Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering
Baton Rouge, LA  70803
Research  225-578-4578
Academic   225-578-8536
Cell          225-328-8975

On 10/13/16, 1:09 PM, "proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org on behalf of Andre Joost" <proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org on behalf of andre+joost at nurfuerspam.de> wrote:

>Am 13.10.2016 um 10:07 schrieb Jelmer Baas:
>> Hello,
>> I currently have a MapInfo file in UTM Zone 30 (ED 50) (EPSG: 23030)
>> projection, which, after reprojection via OGR2OGR to EPSG:900913,
>> moves a few meters East when compared to OSM.
>Looks like a datum shift issue, but kkep in mind that OSM is not 
>necessarily "exact".
>> Oddly enough, the EPSG file defines 23030 as +proj=utm +zone=30
>> +ellps=intl +towgs84=-87,-98,-121,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs  <>
>... using a mean shift value for whole Europe.
>> Yet, spatialreference.org
>> (http://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/ed50-utm-zone-30n/ ) defines it
>> as +proj=utm +zone=30 +ellps=intl +units=m +no_defs
>... omitting the datum shift, which is surely wrong.
>> For completeness, MapInfo PRO defines this projection system as: UTM
>> Zone 30 (ED 50)\p23030", 8, 28, 7, -3, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0
>I'm not sure if this includes an explicit datum shift.
>> From a developer at MapInfo I got a tip to try to include an accurate
>> datum transform file, like NTV2_0.GSB, but CS2CS doesn't want to use
>> this: This file doesn't even exist: cs2cs +nadgrids=blah.gsb
>> +proj=utm +zone=30 +ellps=intl +towgs84=-87,-98,-121,0,0,0,0 +units=m
>> +to +proj=merc +a=6378137 +b=6378137 +lat_ts=0.0 +lon_0=0.0 +x_0=0.0
>> +y_0=0 +k=1.0 +units=m cs2cs +proj=utm +zone=30 +ellps=intl
>> +towgs84=-87,-98,-121,0,0,0,0 +units=m +to +proj=merc +a=6378137
>> +b=6378137 +lat_ts=0.0 +lon_0=0.0 +x_0=0.0 +y_0=0 +k=1.0 +units=m
>> +nadgrids=blah.gsb [no error, Process Monitor shows cs2cs not even
>> trying to open the file]
>What datum shift grid did you use? the files I know are mainly from 
>national coordinate systems to WGS84.
>>  Can anyone tell me why there's a difference between the MapInfo PRO
>> projection and the Proj.4 projection? And, hopefully, also a solution
>> to correct this? Please note that I don't know whether MapInfo or
>> Proj is at fault, I justk now that my data is drawn from MapInfo,
>> where it's accurate compared to other data.
>The EPSG registry lists 42 valid datum shift parameter sets from ED50 to 
>WGS84, each with a different area of use. As written above, the values 
>in EPSG:23030 are a mean value, which can not provide centimeter accuracy.
>André Joost
>Proj mailing list
>Proj at lists.maptools.org
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