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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hello everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I am emailing to push for the addition of the coordinate
system known as the Rectified Skew Orthomorphic Oblique Mercator Natural Origin
(sometimes known as Hotine Oblique Mercator Natural Origin). I have come
to the conclusion that this projection is not capable of being defined properly
in the current version of Proj. This email is very urgent as it applies
to not only Alaska State Plane zone 1 but also Michigan Georef (the most widely
used projection for freely available data in the state of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">Michigan</st1:State></st1:place>). This projection problem has
been posted multiple times over the course of more than 2 years and has still
not been fixed. If you read through prior posts, you will see that a proper
solution has never been developed although Melita Kennedy has made it known
that ArcMap does support this projection. Additionally, I have supplied
the code for this transformation in the form of Visual Basic Code on a previous
post which is not as accurate as it could be with the proper help from this
group. The transformation algorithm is available via EPSG’s website
but may contain a small error for the computation of gamma or some other
parameter. Please note the urgency of this problem, as this deficiency
hinders the users of most open source mapping software (Mapguide and Mapserver)
for anyone in <st1:State w:st="on">Michigan</st1:State> or <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on">Alaska</st1:State></st1:place>. Below is an outline of the correct
transformation of an example coordinate and also the incorrect transformation
results from using proj. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Michigan</span></font></b></st1:place></st1:State><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> Georef Meters as Defined in GPS Pathfinder Office (Uses a Correct
Transformation)<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Datum Name= NAD 1983 (Conus)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Datum Method= Molodensky<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Projection= Oblique Mercator Angle (RSO)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Positive Coordinate Direction= North and East<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Central Latitude= 45Deg 18Min 33Sec North<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Central Longitude= 86Deg 00Min 00Sec West<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>False Northing(meters)= -4354009.816<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>False Easting(meters)= 2546731.496<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Scale Factor= 0.9996<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Azimuth in Seconds= 1214120<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Azimuth located at center of projection <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Origin located at Equator<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 1 Georef Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>665104.166 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>341261.925 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correc</span></b>t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 2 Georef Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>662000.00 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>341000.00 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 1 State Plane South Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4033461.471 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>233802.762 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 2 State Plane South Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4030351.750 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>233602.528 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Transformation using Autodesk Map 3D 2007
(Also uses a correct transformation)</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I imported a shapefile with the same 2 Georef Coordinates as
the above example.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The shapefile that was imported was defined according to
Autodesk as MI83-OB and transformed into the Michigan State Plane South Meters
Projection (MI83-S) and it also gave me the correct coordinates.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 1 State Plane South Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4033461.471 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>233802.762 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Point 2 State Plane South Meters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4030351.750 x <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>233602.528 y <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>correct</span></b><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><u><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>*Proj4 attempted RSO natural origin projection
definitions<o:p></o:p></span></font></u></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Michigan</span></font></b></st1:place></st1:State><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'> State Plane South Meters</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This is the definition that I used to project my Michigan
Georef Data to. Please also note that I changed the false easting (+x_0)
to 4000000 (correct) instead of 3999999.99999###..(wrong false easting unless
the small variation is making up for something that happens in this projection
engine)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>+proj=lcc +lat_1=43.66666666666667 +lat_2=42.1 +lat_0=41.5
+lon_0=-84.36666666666667 +x_0=4000000.0 +y_0=0 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83
+units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I used a few different variations of the omerc projection to
try to represent a natural origin RSO properly but could not get it to work
right. I think this is because Proj does not support natural origins.
(Origin located at Equator)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>*Here are my CS2CS point transformation examples and results
of two forward examples and two reverse examples<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>*This example has the parameter +no_uoff
applied to the georef definition<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>cs2cs +proj=omerc +k_0=0.9996 +alpha=337.25555555555556
+lat_0=45.30916666666667 +lonc=86.00000000000000 +no_uoff +x_0=2546731.496
+y_0=-4354009.816 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m +to +proj=lcc
+lat_1=43.66666666666667 +lat_2=42.1 +lat_0=41.5 +lon_0=-84.36666666666667
+x_0=4000000.0 +y_0=0 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>665104.166 341261.925<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>10038527.39 10152300.28<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>*This example does not have the parameter
+no_uoff applied<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>cs2cs +proj=omerc +k_0=0.9996 +alpha=337.25555555555556
+lat_0=45.30916666666667 +lonc=86.00000000000000 +x_0=2546731.496
+y_0=-4354009.816 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m +to +proj=lcc
+lat_1=43.66666666666667 +lat_2=42.1 +lat_0=41.5 +lon_0=-84.36666666666667
+x_0=4000000.0 +y_0=0 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>665104.166 341261.925<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>6630581.93 5400202.21<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>*This reverse example does not have the
parameter +no_uoff applied<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>cs2cs +proj=lcc +lat_1=43.66666666666667 +lat_2=42.1
+lat_0=41.5 +lon_0=-84.36666666666667 +x_0=4000000.0 +y_0=0 +ellps=GRS80
+datum=NAD83 +units=m +to +proj=omerc +k_0=0.9996 +alpha=337.25555555555556
+lat_0=45.30916666666667 +lonc=86.00000000000000 +x_0=2546731.496
+y_0=-4354009.816 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4033461.471 233802.762<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>238971.78 5627717.79<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>*This reverse example has the parameter
+no_uoff applied (it apparently doesn't matter when projecting TO oblique
mercator)<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>cs2cs +proj=lcc +lat_1=43.66666666666667 +lat_2=42.1
+lat_0=41.5 +lon_0=-84.36666666666667 +x_0=4000000.0 +y_0=0 +no_uoff
+ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m +to +proj=omerc +k_0=0.9996
+alpha=337.25555555555556 +lat_0=45.30916666666667 +lonc=86.00000000000000
+x_0=2546731.496 +y_0=-4354009.816 +ellps=GRS80 +datum=NAD83 +units=m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>4033461.471 233802.762<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>238971.78 5627717.79 <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Again, it is very urgent that this projection be supported. Thank
you all for your help. If you have any questions please post them as soon
as possible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<h1><b><font size=2 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Max
Clever, L.S.I.T.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h1>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
5.0pt;margin-left:0in'><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>Staff Surveyor</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic";font-weight:bold'>Spicer
Group, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=1
face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>230
S. Washington Avenue</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font size=1
face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=1
face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>Saginaw</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>,
<st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">48607</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>Phone: (989) 754-4065 ext. 5584</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>Cell: (989)
989-928-8028<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>Fax:
(989) 754-4440<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>mailto: </span></font><a
href="mailto:maxc@spicergroup.com"><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>maxc@spicergroup.com</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a
href="../../STANDOCS/Signatures/Company%20Standard/www.yeoandyeo-consulting.com"
title=www.yeoandyeo-consulting.com><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>www.spicergroup.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=1 color=maroon face="Century Gothic"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic";color:maroon;font-style:
italic'>Spicer Group’s</span></font></i><b><font size=1 color=maroon
face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic";
color:maroon;font-weight:bold'> <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Engineers,
Surveyors, and Planners </span></i></span></font></b><i><font size=1
color=maroon face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
"Century Gothic";color:maroon;font-style:italic'>strive for perfection in
everything we do. We take the best that exists & make it better. When
it doesn’t exist, we design it!</span></font></i><i><font size=2
color=maroon face="Century Gothic"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Century Gothic";color:maroon;font-style:italic'><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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