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<title>Re: [Proj] How to transform between NAD83 HARN/HPGN and WGS84</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Professor,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I didn’t intend to imply that a
better transformation package existed. I was speaking about “recomputing
an entire original traverse on another datum”, but I didn’t make
that clear.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I was recommending that one consider the
purpose of the data transformation before deciding to use ANY transformation
package. If I was building a nuclear reactor I would want to perform field
surveys to tie into local survey control.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Aaron is probably fine using CopsCon. I
just get nervous when I hear “sub-foot” accuracy. Usually when you
are dealing with coordinates at that level of accuracy you are leaving the GIS
arena and entering an arena that demands field work to reference local control
on the ground.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I apologize for the confusion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><strong><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Landon</span></font></b></strong><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Clifford J Mugnier<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 19, 2009
12:47 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> PROJ.4 and general Projections
Discussions<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Proj] How to
transform between NAD83 HARN/HPGN and WGS84</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=idOWAReplyText19183>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>The analogies are incomprehensible as
offered. CorpsCon performs State Plane and UTM transformations to better
than a tenth of a millimeter round-trip accuracy. The datum
transformations are kosher NGS NADCON in that they use the original NGS data
files. There is no better tool available other than <u>re-computing an
entire original traverse on another datum using the new endpoint
coordinates.</u></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>NADCON is the official method to transform among the U.S. North
American Datums as published in the <em><i><font face="Times New Roman">Federal
Register</font></i></em>. CorpsCon was written by the U.S. Army
Topographic Engineering Center and uses the original NADCON data files as
developed by Cdr. Warren Dewhust of the U.S. National Geodetic Survey.
TEC used NGS 5 as the authoritative source for the equations for the State
Plane Coordinate Systems as also declared and published in the <em><i><font
face="Times New Roman">Federal Register</font></i></em>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Whether transforming gopher holes or tiepoints for a nuclear reactor,
there is no better transformation package available.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>C. Mugnier</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>LSU</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org on behalf of Landon Blake<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thu 19-Feb-09 13:22<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> PROJ.4 and general Projections
Discussions<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Proj] How to
transform between NAD83 HARN/HPGN and WGS84</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I'd be
careful using something like Corpscon for data that is sub-foot<br>
accuracy and needs to stay that way.<br>
<br>
We wouldn't use that program or any like it to convert data that needs<br>
to be that accurate. I don't know what the purpose of Aaron's data<br>
conversion is, but he might need to be careful.<br>
<br>
Transforming the location of gopher holes using Corpscon is one thing.<br>
Transforming building corner positions, or the alignment of a new<br>
pipeline with Corpscon is another thing entirely.<br>
<br>
Landon<br>
Office Phone Number: (209) 946-0268<br>
Cell Phone Number: (209) 992-0658<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org<br>
[<a href="mailto:proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org">mailto:proj-bounces@listsmaptools.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Richard Greenwood<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:42 AM<br>
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions<br>
Subject: Re: [Proj] How to transform between NAD83 HARN/HPGN and WGS84<br>
<br>
Corpscon (<a href="http://crunch.tec.army.mil/software/corpscon/corpscon.html">http://crunch.tec.army.mil/software/corpscon/corpscon.html</a>)<br>
based on NADCON is a good, free, authoritative tool when working in<br>
the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Rich<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Aaron Friesen <aaron@cartopac.com><br>
wrote:<br>
> Everyone,<br>
><br>
> I checked the archives for the past year and did not find an<br>
> answer to this. Google did not provide me with any leads<br>
> either.<br>
><br>
> I have data in NAD83 HARN for <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Colorado</st1:place></st1:State>.
I need to take the<br>
> data into the field as WGS84, update it/add to it, and get<br>
> it back as NAD83 HARN for <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Colorado</st1:place></st1:State>.
The data I am collecting<br>
> has sub-foot accuracy, so "close" is not good enough.<br>
><br>
> The information on the grid files does not address the<br>
> HARN/HPGN question.<br>
><br>
> Is this type of transformation with the accuracy I need<br>
> possible with Proj?<br>
><br>
> Are HARN grid files available or are towgs84 settings defined<br>
> for the various HARN areas?<br>
><br>
> Or am I stuck looking for an alternative, commercial solution?<br>
><br>
> Thank for your assistance.<br>
><br>
> Aaron<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Proj mailing list<br>
> Proj@lists.maptools.org<br>
> <a href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj">http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Richard Greenwood<br>
richard.greenwood@gmail.com<br>
www.greenwoodmap.com<br>
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