<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:Arial;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=SV link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> Option (a) is the desired intent. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> [ … ]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> This is essentially a scale factor correction for
grid to ground distances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I see. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> <st1:State w:st="on">Minnesota</st1:State> does
this on a county-by-county basis; <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Colombia</st1:place></st1:country-region> does city-by-city.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Aha, so that’s the explanation for things like<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'>GEOGCS["GCS_NAD_1983_HARN_Adj_MN_Carver",<br>
DATUM["D_NAD_1983_HARN_Adj_MN_Carver",<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'> SPHEROID["S_GRS_1980_Adj_MN_Carver",6378400.653,298.2572221008827]],<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'> PRIMEM["<st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Greenwich</st1:City></st1:place>",0.0],<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt'> UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>They have confused me, too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thank you very much,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mikael Rittri<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Carmenta<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Sweden<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>http://www.carmenta.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Clifford J Mugnier<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> den 4 maj 2012 17:09<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> PROJ.4 and general Projections
Discussions<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Proj] How does the
datum "NAD27 Michigan" work?</span></font><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Option (a) is the desired intent. This is an attempt to translate
between GIS pros and Cadastral pros. Many GIS pros back then were not
aware of using the Gaussian Sphere to implement the "Sea Level
Correction" muchless go above the ellipsoid to the surface.
Minnesota does this on a county-by-county basis; Colombia does
city-by-city. This is essentially a scale factor correction for grid to
ground distances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Sent from Cliff Mugnier's iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On May 4, 2012, at 5:19, "Mikael Rittri" <<a
href="mailto:Mikael.Rittri@carmenta.com">Mikael.Rittri@carmenta.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am trying to understand the ”NAD27
Michigan” datum, EPSG:6268.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As represented in EPSG, this is a datum distinct from
NAD27,<br>
and uses the ellipsoid “Clarke 1866 <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:state></st1:place></st1:place></st1:State>”.
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>EPSG remarks: <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> “Ellipsoid taken to be 800
ft above the NAD27 reference ellipsoid.”<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The information source (J. P. Snyder. Map
Projections: A Working Manual, p. 56, note 1)<br>
is more precise: <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> “The major and minor axes of the
ellipsoid are taken at exactly 1.0000382 times those<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> of the Clarke 1866, for <st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:state></st1:place></st1:State>
only. This incorporates an average elevation throughout<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> the State of about 800 ft, with
limited variation.”<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Neither EPSG nor Snyder gives any datum shift for NAD
27 Michigan. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>However, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources
just writes:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
Datum: NAD27<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Ellipsoid: Modified
Clarke, 1866<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>where the ellipsoid turns out to be the same as
“Clarke 1866 <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Michigan</st1:state></st1:place></st1:place></st1:State>”.
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(<a
href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DNR_Map_Proj_and_MI_Georef_Info_20889_7.pdf"></a><a
href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DNR_Map_Proj_and_MI_Georef_Info_20889_7.pdf">http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DNR_Map_Proj_and_MI_Georef_Info_20889_7.pdf</a>)<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So it seems that Michiganders regard the datum NAD27
Michigan to be the same as NAD27:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>it is not an adjustment or densification or whatever,
it just has a different ellipsoid. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>But this can be interpreted in two ways: <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> a) that long/lat are the same in both
datums,<br>
b) or that geocentric Cartesian coordinates X,Y,Z are the same in
both datums.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If a) is intended, then a correct datum shift for
NAD27 Michigan could use the CONUS<br>
grid shift file intended for NAD27.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>And if b) is intended, then the 3-parameter shift
between NAD27 Michigan <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>and NAD27 would be 0,0,0.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>These interpretations are not quite equivalent. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I’ve tried out b) in Proj.4, by setting
identical towgs84 parameters for both datums.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(These are not very accurate, but since they are the
same on both sides, they should<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> cancel each other and give a 0,0,0 shift
between NAD 27 Michigan and NAD27.)<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>cs2cs +proj=longlat +a=6378450.0475
+b=6356826.6215 +towgs84=-9,161,179 +to +proj=longlat +ellps=clrk66 +towgs84=-9,161,179<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-85 45 0<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>85dW 44d59'59.973"N 243.235<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So, the point at the ellipsoid surface of NAD27
Michigan is 243.235 m = 798 feet<br>
above the NAD27 ellipsoid, as expected. What surprised me is the latitude<br>
shift of 0.027" = 0.83 meters. Well, I think understand where it comes
from: the<br>
line that is perpendicular to the ellipsoid surfaces doesn’t go through
the ellipsoid<br>
center(s). But the effect is much larger than I would have thought. <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So, does anyone know whether a) or b) or something
else is the correct interpretation?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best regards,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mikael Rittri<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Carmenta<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Sweden<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a href="http://www.carmenta.com">http://www.carmenta.com</a><u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Proj mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Proj@lists.maptools.org">Proj@lists.maptools.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj">http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>