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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Milo, Jan,<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for the suggestions so far. I tried to rule out the NL->DE step by first going to WGS84.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Even this transformation doesn’t go the same as Oracle/MapInfo:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">Point 135745.924 517131.216<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">Oracle 5.10275163084204 52.6413240233221<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">MapInfo 5.102751 52.641323<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">PostGis 5.10274900325229 52.6413367842089<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">PostGi2 5.10274907007772 52.6413367898401<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">DLL 4 5.10274904569186 52.6413366577093
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">DLL 3 5.102749003361 52.6413367848006<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">DLL 2 5.10274903201512 52.6413367357724<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">DLL 1 5.10274900325279 52.6413367843563
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D">DLL ORG 5.10274909884125 52.6413367414033<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I tried these projection strings:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
+units=m +no_defs <><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
+units=m +no_defs no_defs <> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.156160556 +lon_0=5.387638889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
+ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs no_defs <> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +towgs84=565.04,49.91,465.84,-0.409394387439237,0.359705195614311,-1.86849100035057,4.0772
+no_defs +to +proj=latlong +datum=WGS84<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812
+no_defs <><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=565.04,49.91,465.84,-1.9848,1.7439,-9.0587,4.0772
+units=m +no_defs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Met vriendelijke groet,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jelmer Baas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Speer IT B.V.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org [mailto:proj-bounces@lists.maptools.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Milo van der Linden (gmail)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:57<br>
<b>To:</b> PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Proj] Netherlands RD (28992) to UTM Zone 32 (3044) produces shifted coordinates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hello Jelmer,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1. I would strongly advice to transform everything to wgs84 first.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2. wgs84 and etrs89 are based upon different spheroids/datums. Transforming from wgs84 TO etrs89 will not be correct if your etrs89 definition does not have +towgs84 defined. And by default I believe it isn't. Take a look at this ticket:
<a href="http://trac.osgeo.org/proj/ticket/15">http://trac.osgeo.org/proj/ticket/15</a> and see if it is of any help.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So, what I would do is:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">epsg:28992 -> wgs84 (visual check) -> etrs89<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good luck!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2013/7/30 Jelmer Baas <<a href="mailto:baas@speerit.nl" target="_blank">baas@speerit.nl</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span lang="NL">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>For a new project we need to convert coordinates from EPSG 28992 to EPSG 3044 with MapInfo, Oracle AND a few Proj.4 programs (PostGIS, a custom DLL, Proj4js). The problem we are having is that we're seeing some shifted coordinates.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>First test point (in the Netherlands)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Origin 135745.924 517131.216</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Proj4js 236345.39474983042 5839505.550959114</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Postgis(1) 236345.390264227 5839505.55017783</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Postgis(2) 236345.394817119 5839505.55055913</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL" style="font-family:"Courier New"">MapInfo 236345.47 5839504.058</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL" style="font-family:"Courier New"">CS2CSN 236345.39 5839505.55</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">DLL old(4) 236345.396465174 5839505.54496813</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">DLL new(3) 236345.390259674 5839505.55009311</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Oracle 236345.49107424 5839504.12246656</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Test point (in Germany)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Origin 254870.45 415123.56</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">MapInfo 350265.960 5731670.259</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Postgis(1) 350263.4072329 5731667.880
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Postgis(2) 350263.4132521 5731667.880
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">DLL new(3) 350263.407243136 5731667.88019826
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">DLL old(4) 350263.403514925 5731667.88565864
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Oracle(5) 350265.967728329 5731670.33312477
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">CS2CS 350263.41 5731667.88 43.92 cs2cs +init=EPSG:28992 +to +init=EPSG:3044</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It seems MapInfo and Oracle more-or-less agree, as do all Proj.4-based products. I don’t know which are “right”, meaning I also don’t know which ones are wrong – let alone find the fault.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Hopefully someone can help me with this problem, or at least point me in the right direction.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(1): <span style="font-family:"Courier New"">"+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725 +units=m +no_defs "</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(2) Another server where I updated the spatial_ref_system: <span style="font-family:"Courier New"">
"+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812 +no_defs no_defs"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(3) A custom built DLL for usage in VB6. "+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812
+no_defs <>"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(4) Same DLL. “+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725 +units=m +no_defs <>”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(5)<span style="font-family:"Courier New""> select sdo_cs.transform(SDO_GEOMETRY('POINT(254870.45 415123.56)', 90112),25832) from dual;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(5b) The Oracle definition contains some tags I don’t see anywhere in Proj.4 (like the Bessel 1841 part): <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>PROJCS["Netherlands National System", GEOGCS [ "Netherlands Bessel", DATUM ["Netherlands Bessel", SPHEROID ["Bessel 1841", 6377397.155, 299.1528128]], PRIMEM [ "Greenwich", 0.000000 ], UNIT ["Decimal Degree", 0.01745329251994330]], PROJECTION ["Stereographic"],
PARAMETER ["Scale_Factor", 0.999908], PARAMETER ["Central_Meridian", 5.387639], PARAMETER ["Latitude_Of_Origin", 52.156161], PARAMETER ["False_Easting", 155000.000000], PARAMETER ["False_Northing", 463000.000000], UNIT ["Meter", 1.000000000000]]
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A side note is that transformation via my DLL doesn’t work properly (i.e., coordinates are shifted tens of meters), unless I *<b>first</b>* transform to WGS84 and then to 3044. I assume this is caused by an easy-to-fix error, but I don’t know what that is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>P.S.: PostGIS, Proj4JS and my epsg file are all up-to-date.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks for any help,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL">With kind regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL">Jelmer Baas</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span lang="NL"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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