[Proj] Netherlands RD (28992) to UTM Zone 32 (3044) produces shifted coordinates
Jan Hartmann
j.l.h.hartmann at uva.nl
Tue Jul 30 05:58:20 EST 2013
It could be that MapInfo/Oracle do not use the 7 parameter Helmert
formula, as used by PROJ, but a grid shift file. The small size of the
deviations make this very probable. Until recently there was no usable
grid shift available for PROJ, but the Dutch Topographical Service is
working on a grid shift file in gsb-format. Nothing has been made public
as yet, but I'll ask them and let you know.
By the way, this grid shift file works only within the Netherlands. It
will give false results if you try to align coordinates in the
Netherlands and Germany.
Jan
On 30-7-2013 12:27, Jelmer Baas wrote:
>
> Milo, Jan,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions so far. I tried to rule out the NL->DE step
> by first going to WGS84.
>
> Even this transformation doesn’t go the same as Oracle/MapInfo:
>
> Point 135745.924 517131.216
>
> Oracle 5.10275163084204 52.6413240233221
>
> MapInfo 5.102751 52.641323
>
> PostGis 5.10274900325229 52.6413367842089
>
> PostGi2 5.10274907007772 52.6413367898401
>
> DLL 4 5.10274904569186 52.6413366577093
>
> DLL 3 5.102749003361 52.6413367848006
>
> DLL 2 5.10274903201512 52.6413367357724
>
> DLL 1 5.10274900325279 52.6413367843563
>
> DLL ORG 5.10274909884125 52.6413367414033
>
> I tried these projection strings:
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
> +units=m +no_defs <>
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
> +units=m +no_defs no_defs <>
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.156160556 +lon_0=5.387638889 +k=0.9999079
> +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000
> +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
> +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs no_defs <>
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> +towgs84=565.04,49.91,465.84,-0.409394387439237,0.359705195614311,-1.86849100035057,4.0772
> +no_defs +to +proj=latlong +datum=WGS84
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.999908 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812
> +no_defs <>
>
> +proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=565.04,49.91,465.84,-1.9848,1.7439,-9.0587,4.0772 +units=m
> +no_defs
>
> Met vriendelijke groet,
>
> Jelmer Baas
>
> Speer IT B.V.
>
> *From:*proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org
> [mailto:proj-bounces at lists.maptools.org] *On Behalf Of *Milo van der
> Linden (gmail)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:57
> *To:* PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
> *Subject:* Re: [Proj] Netherlands RD (28992) to UTM Zone 32 (3044)
> produces shifted coordinates
>
> Hello Jelmer,
>
> 1. I would strongly advice to transform everything to wgs84 first.
>
> 2. wgs84 and etrs89 are based upon different spheroids/datums.
> Transforming from wgs84 TO etrs89 will not be correct if your etrs89
> definition does not have +towgs84 defined. And by default I believe it
> isn't. Take a look at this ticket:
> http://trac.osgeo.org/proj/ticket/15 and see if it is of any help.
>
> So, what I would do is:
>
> epsg:28992 -> wgs84 (visual check) -> etrs89
>
> Good luck!
>
> 2013/7/30 Jelmer Baas <baas at speerit.nl <mailto:baas at speerit.nl>>
>
> Hello,
>
> For a new project we need to convert coordinates from EPSG 28992 to
> EPSG 3044 with MapInfo, Oracle AND a few Proj.4 programs (PostGIS, a
> custom DLL, Proj4js). The problem we are having is that we're seeing
> some shifted coordinates.
>
> First test point (in the Netherlands)
>
> Origin 135745.924 517131.216
>
> Proj4js 236345.39474983042 5839505.550959114
>
> Postgis(1) 236345.390264227 5839505.55017783
>
> Postgis(2) 236345.394817119 5839505.55055913
>
> MapInfo 236345.47 5839504.058
>
> CS2CSN 236345.39 5839505.55
>
> DLL old(4) 236345.396465174 5839505.54496813
>
> DLL new(3) 236345.390259674 5839505.55009311
>
> Oracle 236345.49107424 5839504.12246656
>
> Test point (in Germany)
>
> Origin 254870.45 415123.56
>
> MapInfo 350265.960 5731670.259
>
> Postgis(1) 350263.4072329 5731667.880
>
> Postgis(2) 350263.4132521 5731667.880
>
> DLL new(3) 350263.407243136 5731667.88019826
>
> DLL old(4) 350263.403514925 5731667.88565864
>
> Oracle(5) 350265.967728329 5731670.33312477
>
> CS2CS 350263.41 5731667.88 43.92 cs2cs
> +init=EPSG:28992 +to +init=EPSG:3044
>
> It seems MapInfo and Oracle more-or-less agree, as do all Proj.4-based
> products. I don’t know which are “right”, meaning I also don’t know
> which ones are wrong – let alone find the fault.
>
> Hopefully someone can help me with this problem, or at least point me
> in the right direction.
>
> (1): "+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
> +units=m +no_defs "
>
> (2) Another server where I updated the spatial_ref_system:
> "+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889
> +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812
> +no_defs no_defs"
>
> (3) A custom built DLL for usage in VB6. "+proj=sterea
> +lat_0=52.15616055555555 +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.999908
> +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> +towgs84=565.2369,50.0087,465.658,-0.406857330322398,0.350732676542563,-1.8703473836068,4.0812
> +no_defs <>"
>
> (4) Same DLL. “+proj=sterea +lat_0=52.15616055555555
> +lon_0=5.38763888888889 +k=0.9999079 +x_0=155000 +y_0=463000
> +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=565.417,50.3319,465.552,-0.398957,0.343988,-1.8774,4.0725
> +units=m +no_defs <>”
>
> (5)select sdo_cs.transform(SDO_GEOMETRY('POINT(254870.45 415123.56)',
> 90112),25832) from dual;
>
> (5b) The Oracle definition contains some tags I don’t see anywhere in
> Proj.4 (like the Bessel 1841 part):
>
> PROJCS["Netherlands National System", GEOGCS [ "Netherlands Bessel",
> DATUM ["Netherlands Bessel", SPHEROID ["Bessel 1841", 6377397.155,
> 299.1528128]], PRIMEM [ "Greenwich", 0.000000 ], UNIT ["Decimal
> Degree", 0.01745329251994330]], PROJECTION ["Stereographic"],
> PARAMETER ["Scale_Factor", 0.999908], PARAMETER ["Central_Meridian",
> 5.387639], PARAMETER ["Latitude_Of_Origin", 52.156161], PARAMETER
> ["False_Easting", 155000.000000], PARAMETER ["False_Northing",
> 463000.000000], UNIT ["Meter", 1.000000000000]]
>
> A side note is that transformation via my DLL doesn’t work properly
> (i.e., coordinates are shifted tens of meters), unless I **first**
> transform to WGS84 and then to 3044. I assume this is caused by an
> easy-to-fix error, but I don’t know what that is.
>
> P.S.: PostGIS, Proj4JS and my epsg file are all up-to-date.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Jelmer Baas
>
>
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